Deja Vu: Chamberlain Dominates But Russell Wins

The Kansas 1957 star Wilt Chamberlain dominated his rival Bill Russell and 1956 San Francisco, just like he did in most of 94 head-to-head match-ups in the NBA. But like those games, Russell's team dominated 85-64 to surge into the all-time Top 10 basketball teams in our Value Add Basketball Game.

Chamberlain's head-to-head dominance 

All 94 head-to-head matchups are available through Stathead, as Chamberlain more than doubled him 29.9 - 14.2 points head-to-head, 28 - 23 rebounds per game, and we estimate based on foul shots taken drawing more than twice as many fouls per game (8-3). His defense held Russell to only 37% shooting from the floor.

In our game today matching their college teams, the points were not quite as lopsided, but he had a 24 to 18 edge and would have been more lopsided except for an off night from the line, hitting only 8 of 15 free throws. He drew 10 fouls, and had four on Russell by early in the second half when we had to switch defense have Russell guard Ron Loneski the rest of the game, and play softer to try to avoid a foul.

In the game a player can still foul out when you are trying to avoid a foul, but it does not guaranty he will not foul out. The two ways this can be done are:

1. Changing who the player with four fouls is guarding. In this case Chamberlain gets the ball on rolls of 5, 7 and 8 and if he has the ball he draws a foul one-third of the time. A 1-3 is a basket plus foul, and an 8-12 is a foul drawn for two shots. However, Loweski only gets the ball on a roll of 4 - so one-third as often - even though he does draw a foul one-quarter of the time on his card (if there is not a turnover or blocked shot) on a 6-10 roll on the 20-sided dice.

2. The team can also declare the player is playing to avoid the foul which makes an adjustment on his card. The defensive numbers for fouling are 33-36, and if playing soft then all those rolls turn into a 2-point basket uncontested. Normally Russell fouls on a 35-36 but not on a 33-34, but all are changed to a basket when playing soft. We played this game as a neutral site, but if a team is at home they get to flip rolls of 36 and 66 to get an extra couple of calls again against the road team.

Russell's championship, win dominance 

And yes, Chamberlain got little help and despite his dominance, Russell's San Francisco Dons dominated the game 85-64.

While the two never played in college, Russell's teams dominated the NBA match-ups with a 57-37 game record and went 29-20 in playoff head-to-head matchups. This team was the second of back-to-back titles in college, and his Celtics teams then won 11 of 13 NBA titles for an incredible 13 of 15 titles. It was nice to have KC Jones at his side both in college and the pros, and Russell was hurt one season or it might have been 14 of 15.

In our Game Score Tracker and Ratings of the 200 All-Time great teams in our game, San Francisco improves to the 10th best team of all-time. It could certainly be argued this was the greatest team in college basketball history, at least outside of some UCLA teams.

The previous season they lost their second game of the season against UCLA and were not even ranked. They then won the last 25 games of the season to take the title. They returned for the 1956 season depicted by these cards and won every game, and only one team - Marquette which had made their first Elite 8 the year before - came within single digits.

Here is the new top 25, with three teams tied in 25th. San Francisco is 3-1, averaging a 73-63.5 win, with a kenpom.com-like ranking in our game of 9.1, meaning we calculate they would be expected to beat the average other all-time great team by 9.1 points.

 

All-Time	Top 25 of all-time great VABG teams	Pre Rank	Won	Lost	Score	Allow	SoS	Rating
1	UCLA - 1972 - Bill Walton	1	6	0	72	62.0	-0.5	14.7
2	Kansas - 1997 - Paul Pierce	17	5	0	76.8	62.4	-1.0	13.0
3	Duke - 2001 - Shane Battier	4	3	1	78.3	72.5	4.8	12.3
4	Ohio St. - 1960 - Jerry Lucas	6	2	1	84	76.3	4.7	11.8
5	Indiana - 1976 - Scott May	7	3	1	71.3	59.8	-0.8	11.1
6	Houston - 1968 - Elvin Hayes	14	3	1	73	63.8	1.3	10.1
7	North Carolina - 1982 - Michael Jordan	11	5	1	68.8	65	4.0	10.0
8	Kansas - 2008 - Mario Chalmers	47	5	1	74.7	56.0	-0.7	9.8
9	Kentucky - 1996 - Antoine Walker	5	2	1	72	69.3	3.3	9.7
10	San Francisco - 1956 - Bill Russell	25	3	1	73	63.5	1.0	9.1
11	North Carolina - 2005 - Sean May	15	3	2	72.2	64.4	2.0	9.1
12	Arkansas - 1994 - Corliss Williamson	20	1	2	75.3	70.3	8.0	8.2
13	Villanova - 2018 - Mikal Bridges	21	7	2	79.4	70.3	0.1	7.9
14	Connecticut - 2023 - Adama Sanogo	12	2	0	77	39.0	-19.0	7.8
15	Connecticut - 2004 - Ben Gordon	48	5	2	74.7	66.0	0.7	7.5
16	Virginia - 2019 - Kyle Guy	27	4	1	72.6	65.4	2.4	7.4
17	Baylor - 2021 - Jared Butler	49	2	2	86	78.5	4.8	7.4
18	Louisville - 2013 - Russ Smith	28	2	1	74	66.3	1.7	7.3
19	Gonzaga - 2017 - Nigel Williams-Goss	22	3	3	69.8	63.0	3.0	6.8
20	Kentucky - 2012 - Anthony Davis	2	4	2	72.2	65.7	-4.7	6.6
21	Duke - 1992 - Christian Laettner	8	1	2	73.7	70.3	1.0	6.5
22	North Carolina St. - 1974 - David Thompson	16	2	1	72	72.7	4.3	6.5
23	Duke - 2010 - Jon Scheyer	29	5	2	74	66.7	0.1	6.4
24	DePaul - 1980 - Mark Aguirre	119	3	1	76.8	68.8	3.5	6.4
25	Michigan St. - 1979 - Magic Johnson	23	2	1	70.3	62.7	-2.3	5.8
25	Houston - 1983 - Hakeem Olajuwon	24	2	1	70.7	65.0	-0.3	5.8
25	Cincinnati - 1960 - Oscar Robertson	9	1	2	72.3	78.0	8.3	5.8

San Francisco is first of all WCC teams, with only a recent Gonzaga team close. We list the top three in the nine conferences with at least six all-time great teams in the game. We are combining the Mountain West and Pac-12 under the assumption that will be the setup next year. We extended the B12 to show that Kansas actually has four of the top 79 teams of all time.

The first number listed is where they rank of conference teams, and the second number where they rank of all teams.

 

Conf	Over	WCC All-Time Value Add Basketball Game	Rating	Won	Lost	Pts	Allow	PreS	SOS
1	10	San Francisco - 1956 - Bill Russell	4.3	3	1	73.0	63.5	5	9.1
2	18	Gonzaga - 2017 - Nigel Williams-Goss	6.8	3	3	69.8	63.0	5	3.0
3	51	Loyola Marymount - 1990 - Bo Kimble	1.8	1	2	112.3	108.3	-2	2.3
Conf	Over	B12 All-Time Value Add Basketball Game	Rating	Won	Lost	Pts	Allow	PreS	SOS
1	2	Kansas - 1997 - Paul Pierce	13.0	5	0	76.8	62.4	7	-1.0
2	6	Houston - 1968 - Elvin Hayes	10.1	3	1	73.0	63.8	8	1.3
3	8	Kansas - 2008 - Mario Chalmers	9.8	5	1	74.7	56.0	2	-0.7
4	16	Baylor - 2021 - Jared Butler	7.4	2	2	86.0	78.5	2	4.8
5	25	Houston - 1983 - Hakeem Olajuwon	5.8	2	1	70.7	65.0	5	-0.3
6	26	Cincinnati - 1960 - Oscar Robertson	5.7	1	2	72.3	78.0	10	8.3
7	46	Houston - 2021 - Quentin Grimes	2.0	1	0	102.0	50.0	0	-16.0
11	69	Kansas - 2022 - Ochai Agbaji	0.5	1	0	87.0	81.0	0	-7.9
15	79	Kansas - 1957 - Wilt Chamberlain	2.7	3	2	67.8	71.4	5	-1.0
Conf	Over	A10 All-Time Value Add Basketball Game	Rating	Won	Lost	Pts	Allow	PreS	SOS
1	37	Massachusetts - 1996 - Marcus Camby	3.0	0	0	0.0	0.0	3	0.0
2	72	Loyola-Chicago - 1963 - Jerry Harkness	0.0	0	1	62.0	68.0	4	-2.0
3	115	Dayton - 2020 - Obi Toppin	-3.8	1	1	81.5	80.5	-3	-4.0
Conf	Over	ACC All-Time Value Add Basketball Game	Rating	Won	Lost	Pts	Allow	PreS	SOS
1	3	Duke - 2001 - Shane Battier	12.3	3	1	78.3	72.5	12	4.8
2	7	North Carolina - 1982 - Michael Jordan	10.0	5	1	68.8	65.0	9	4.0
3	10	North Carolina - 2005 - Sean May	9.1	3	2	72.2	64.4	8	2.0
Conf	Over	Amer All-Time Value Add Basketball Game	Rating	Won	Lost	Pts	Allow	PreS	SOS
1	43	Memphis - 2008 - Derrick Rose	2.4	4	2	68.7	65.8	3	-0.3
2	73	Temple - 1958 - Guy Rodgers	0.0	0	0	0.0	0.0	0	0.0
3	74	Tulsa - 2000 - Eric Coley	0.0	0	0	0.0	0.0	0	0.0
Conf	Over	B10 All-Time Value Add Basketball Game	Rating	Won	Lost	Pts	Allow	PreS	SOS
1	1	UCLA - 1972 - Bill Walton	14.7	6	0	72.0	62.0	17	-0.5
2	4	Ohio St. - 1960 - Jerry Lucas	11.8	2	1	84.0	76.3	10	4.7
3	5	Indiana - 1976 - Scott May	11.1	3	1	71.3	59.8	10	-0.8
Conf	Over	BE All-Time Value Add Basketball Game	Rating	Won	Lost	Pts	Allow	PreS	SOS
1	12	Villanova - 2018 - Mikal Bridges	7.9	7	2	79.4	70.3	5	0.1
2	13	Connecticut - 2023 - Adama Sanogo	7.8	2	0	78.5	58.0	10	-11.0
3	14	Connecticut - 2004 - Ben Gordon	7.5	5	2	74.7	66.0	2	0.7
Conf	Over	P12/MWC All-Time Value Add Basketball	Rating	Won	Lost	Pts	Allow	PreS	SOS
1	40	UNLV - 1991 - Larry Johnson	2.8	1	2	72.7	76.3	10	0.7
2	47	Oregon St. - 1982 - AC Green	2.0	0	0	0.0	0.0	2	0.0
3	105	San Diego St. - 2011 - Kawhi Leonard	-2.9	2	2	69.3	71.8	-3	-0.3
Conf	Over	SEC All-Time Value Add Basketball Game	Rating	Won	Lost	Pts	Allow	PreS	SOS
1	9	Kentucky - 1996 - Antoine Walker	9.7	2	1	72.0	69.3	12	3.3
2	11	Arkansas - 1994 - Corliss Williamson	8.2	1	2	75.3	70.3	5	8.0
3	19	Kentucky - 2012 - Anthony Davis	6.6	4	2	72.2	65.7	15	-4.7

And here is the box score from today's Value Add Basketball Game.

 

Pos	Kansas 1957	Pts	3pt	2pt	FT	Att	Reb	Stl	Blk	Fl		Actual Season
1-PG	John Parker	7	1	2	0	0	2	1	0	4	6'0	5.5 Pts, 2.0 Reb
2-SG	Maurice King	4	0	2	0	0	4	1	0	2	6'2	9.7 Pts, 4.5 Reb-NBA
3-SF	Gene Elstun	14	0	7	0	0	7	0	0	3	6'3	11.3 Pts, 5.3 Reb
4-PF	Ron Loneski	7	1	2	0	0	6	1	1	2	6'4	9.6 Pts, 6.8 Reb
5-C	Wilt Chamberlain	24	0	8	8	15	10	0	4	3	7'1	29.6 Pts, 18.9 Reb-NBA
1-PG	John Cleland	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	1	6'3	2.0 Pts, 0.7 Reb
2-SG	Bob Billings	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	1	5'11	2.2 Pts, 0.9 Reb
3-SF	Larry Kelley	4	0	2	0	0	1	0	0	1	6'0	2.0 Pts, 2.0 Reb
4-PF	Monte Johnson	4	0	2	0	0	3	0	0	1	6'5	1.1 Pts, 1.5 Reb
5-C	Lew Johnson	0	0	0	0	0	1	0	0	1	6'6	3.0 Pts, 3.9 Reb
	Jayhawks Totals	64	2	25	8	15	34	3	5	19		13 turnovers
Pos	San Francisco 1956	Pts	3pt	2pt	FT	Att	Reb	Stl	Blk	Fl	Ht	Actual Season
1-PG	Hal Perry	16	0	6	4	5	4	2	0	1	5'10	9.1 Pts, 2.0 Reb
2-SG	Carl Boldt	9	1	2	2	2	7	1	0	1	6'4	8.6 Pts, 5.0 Reb
3-SF	K.C. Jones	15	0	6	3	4	5	0	0	2	6'1	9.8 Pts, 5.2 Reb-NBA
4-PF	Mike Farmer	13	0	6	1	1	7	0	0	5	6'7	8.4 Pts, 7.8 Reb-NBA
5-C	Bill Russell	18	0	8	2	4	11	0	6	4	6'9	20.6 Pts, 21.0 Reb-NBA
1-PG	Harold Payne	2	0	1	0	0	0	1	0	1	5'11	1.0 Pts, 0.1 Reb
2-SG	John Koljian	0	0	0	0	0	2	0	0	1	6'3	1.0 Pts, 1.0 Reb
3-SF	Mike Preaseau	2	0	1	0	0	2	0	0	1	6'5	4.1 Pts, 3.1 Reb
4-PF	Bill Mallen	8	0	4	0	0	3	0	0	1	6'4	4.2 Pts, 3.5 Reb
5-C	Gene Brown	2	0	1	0	0	1	0	1	2	6'3	7.1 Pts, 4.4 Reb
	Dons Totals	85	1	35	12	16	42	4	7	19		10 turnovers

And here is the scoresheet to show the running score.